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GLI
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 Posted: August 26th, 2010 Post subject: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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[Previously on Bug Reports]
| Christian Knudsen wrote: | | I think I'll just hardcode how many free tiles there are on each ship (not counting tiles that can be used for cargo crates in the cargo hold) and just check against this when deciding whether or not there's room for another scooped pilot. |
Well... maybe some future version of the game will have more "complications" like:
1. free place (like right now) - ejected pilot must be placed somewhere,
2. life support (with upgrades) - it "cleans" air on ship,
3. oxygen/air tanks - living beings must breath,
4. water and food supply - they must drink and eat too.
I'll skip "toilet" because every cabin on space ship should has one IMO.
Amount of passengers depends on number of cabins on space ship. OK, but amount of (scooped) ejected pilots could depend not only on free place. It could depend on ships internal "life support" system. If player want to "carry/transport" more ejected pilots and/or captives then should buy better "life support" system (upgrades!).
For regular passenger and for longer travel with captives (free ejected pilots will disembark ASAP) player could be able to buy water and food supplies too. Player's character could drink and eat too. He/she could be tired ("fatigue indicator") and in this way could/be forced to use hotels more often. You know, tired "warrior" is less effective in fight... 
I played "simple" flash game that is quite complicated (for better "realism") - Caravaneer (game world similar to Fallout). You can download it and there is save/load system too. WARNING! It's highly addictive! Almost like P:AS... 
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Iltsuger
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| Posted: August 26th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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You could also use [cargo floor tiles] as a general determinant when you're trying to calculate how many people can be safely aboard a spacecraft before you can't scoop up/transport any more. As I said on the post your idea was moved from. Must not have been as important :P
I think I discussed this sort of thing a long time ago, but yeah, there could be more to passenger transport. Part of me kinda wants it to be independent of the mission system, where you'll just have people in waiting rooms who want to be transported from one place to another, and you'll pick them up on independent contracts, but be expected to provide them with actual cabins as opposed to the fixer missions, and will be liable if they don't reach their destination intact.
Was also thinking external pods:
Extra cargo space
Extra fuel
Extra torpedoes or missiles
Mission-based payloads that you can pick up, or leave for others to pick up
A single, shield-destroying mega torpedo-like thing
Higher-level target acquisition gear that can track a target even if you're not facing it.
Thing is, a pod isn't protected by the ship's armor or possibly even shields. Since they're external, you have to buy separate armor for them, or different levels of protection on a pod, which, if hit, may be destroyed.
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GLI
Ace
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| Posted: August 26th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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| Iltsuger wrote: | | I think I discussed this sort of thing a long time ago, but yeah, there could be more to passenger transport. Part of me kinda wants it to be independent of the mission system, where you'll just have people in waiting rooms who want to be transported from one place to another, and you'll pick them up on independent contracts, but be expected to provide them with actual cabins as opposed to the fixer missions, and will be liable if they don't reach their destination intact. |
It could be interesting if from some point of game (e.g. because of experience and/or faction standings) player's character will get offer:
"- Please, mister! We're too poor to pay for cruise liner, even 4th class. Could you please take our family to [base/station/planet]?
- How much you will pay?
- That's all what we have: [some relative small amount of money]...
- [YES/NO]."
Player could decide too if will take them and deliver for free (big plus for "karma/reputation")... or to enslave them during flight (big loss of "karma/reputation").
Waiting rooms are good for regular cruise liners. "Free merchants" could get such job from fixers ("Mission: Take group of settlers...") or from random persons e.g. near landing place (but this time NPCs will talk first; like in above situation).
It'll be "interesting" too if such group could occur [grammatic! where's hiding?!] "undercover" Pirates or Retros. For beginners (combat rookie) it'll be very risky job...
| Iltsuger wrote: | Was also thinking external pods:
Extra cargo space
Extra fuel
Extra torpedoes or missiles
Mission-based payloads that you can pick up, or leave for others to pick up
A single, shield-destroying mega torpedo-like thing
Higher-level target acquisition gear that can track a target even if you're not facing it.
Thing is, a pod isn't protected by the ship's armor or possibly even shields. Since they're external, you have to buy separate armor for them, or different levels of protection on a pod, which, if hit, may be destroyed. |
Nothing external... except "Large Cargo Containers" (like in "X-Wing/TIE-Fighter" games) but for this player will need:
1. new class of spaceship - Tug (something like "Clarkson class"), up to 8 LCCs depends on "upgrades",
2. special mounts for present merchants (only!) ships (not smaller then Galaxy) - less amount of LCC than Tug and could depend on size (1 for Galaxy, 2 for Ulysess, 4 for Drayman); mounts should take some internal space in cargo hold.
LCCs should be able to "survive" in open space and have some (thin?) armor. Ship's shield generator could "cover" LCCs but not with full power (SU-1 shouldn't cover LCC, for "level-1" protection of LCC ship needs e.g. SU-2).
Ships with LCC should be slower and have lesser acceleration... and sometimes turrets should be "permanently" disabled (or even not mounted; side turrets).
Player could not buy LCC. It'll be just (special) cargo. Player could buy mounts for LCC or special ship (Tug) only.
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Lexus
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| Posted: August 27th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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Great idea! I vote yes...
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Cthulhu
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| Posted: August 27th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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| Iltsuger wrote: | | where you'll just have people in waiting rooms who want to be transported from one place to another, and you'll pick them up on independent contracts |
I like that idea, but how about having them just in New Frankfurt/Beijing, and the capital planet, and other than that they have to wait in the bar?
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Iltsuger
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| Posted: August 27th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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| Cthulhu wrote: | | I like that idea, but how about having them just in New Frankfurt/Beijing, and the capital planet, and other than that they have to wait in the bar? |
I don't see why not. Or some of the outlying worlds, especially the new ones, might have these, to help encourage us to go out there and see them. Like, the idea behind it would be that hub worlds and outlying worlds have the most transport problems, mainly because outlying worlds don't get frequent visitors, and hub worlds wind up having too many so people get left behind.
GLI, there's been talk of emergent gameplay scenarios elsewhere, I think I came up with some ideas about how you can run into a situation and have to take sides or rescue someone and actually get compensated for it, but why not have extra emergent stuff on the ground, too, like what you're suggesting?
The player is free to reject it with no consequences, just like rejecting other missions doesn't have any negative consequences other than not getting paid for it.
But this is the important thing for me: regions of space should have different emergent elements.
This makes each region or planet have special character. Like, if you like a certain type of emergent mission you're more likely to hang out there, since those sorts of things are more likely to happen there. It makes the different planets and systems feel a bit more real, like those people actually have lives of their own, rather than all the shops and amenities being pretty much the same from one place to another.
GLI, not sure if you agree or not, but I think I had in mind something similar to what you're saying, that you would likely have to have a merchant ship to take advantage of pods (just like fighter class ships get to do things that merchant ships are less likely to accomplish, like taking down capital ships).
I wouldn't want it to be a tug-exclusive, though. I think merhcant ships in general should have this opportunity to some degree, to justify their existence beyond making money so you can buy a nice fighter-class ship.
To justify the added burden of a pod, you could say that it takes some generator power to extend the shield around them. Thus the burden is that the generators will be more easily depleted if you have a pod than if you don't. In a sense, they will be a constant drain on your power, as if you had a higher level of shields than you actually do, and this could be extended to thruster types as well, taking more power to hit afterburners.
Another pod idea:
Emergency afterburners. Sort of like nitro in some racing games, where you have a limited amount of burn fuel, and you just sort of ignite it and go really, really fast until you detach it or it runs out. Good for a Drayman trying to make an emergency getaway, or a mid-range fighter trying to catch up with faster ships.
As for grammar:
"It would be interesting, too, if such a group could be undercover Pirates or Retros." I think hiding doesn't work right here, so you chose the right words. If you meant that they were hiding from authority and asking for your help, that might work, though.
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VincentFirePony
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| Posted: August 27th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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Passenger transport missions? Interesting idea, I like it.
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Cthulhu
Ace
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| Posted: August 28th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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| VincentFirePony wrote: | | Passenger transport missions? Interesting idea, I like it. |
Previous discussions about it always had to do with including a passengers guild + passenger ships.
But this I like.
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Iltsuger
Veteran
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| Posted: August 28th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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There could be passenger demand, to facilitate WHERE these people need to go to and from. Like there will be an inner statistic for each world that needs labor, and there will be other people who need transport. Places that need labor are more likely to have people who want to go there.
Then the software computes where the demand is, and the surplus, and bases the amount of emergent prospective passengers based on that. It doesn't have to be labor focused, and there still can be just random passengers who want to go to random places, but this might help it feel a bit like you can take advantage of certain labor rushes, even getting them in the news like we do with commodities.
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GLI
Ace
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| Posted: August 28th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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| Iltsuger wrote: | | Cthulhu wrote: | | I like that idea, but how about having them just in New Frankfurt/Beijing, and the capital planet, and other than that they have to wait in the bar? |
I don't see why not. Or some of the outlying worlds, especially the new ones, might have these, to help encourage us to go out there and see them. Like, the idea behind it would be that hub worlds and outlying worlds have the most transport problems, mainly because outlying worlds don't get frequent visitors, and hub worlds wind up having too many so people get left behind. |
You guys should go to nearest bar and ask bartender/owner if they will be pleased with 20-30 "refugees", poor travelers (especially with kids) or "settlers" in their bar. It's not like at coaching inn or bus station (we'll leave this for "cruise liners").
In the game such passengers could be too poor to buy ticket for "regular passenger transport", want to keep "low profile" (especially some "outlaws") or will be trying travel to bases/stations/planets where regular liners don't want fly.
Some middlemen (like fixers) could "hide/keep" them in some (cheap) place e.g. outside of space port. Players don't need to know where.
| Iltsuger wrote: | | GLI, there's been talk of emergent gameplay scenarios elsewhere, I think I came up with some ideas about how you can run into a situation and have to take sides or rescue someone and actually get compensated for it, but why not have extra emergent stuff on the ground, too, like what you're suggesting? |
Emergent gameplay scenarios? Something like scooping friendly ejected pilots and taking some extra money for this (instead of enslaving them)? But this time with something more than just "quick" extra money (at least not at once):
- scooped friendly pilots (they could to propose some mission/mini-quest),
- defended friendly merchants (they could offer some job, e.g. escort/convoy mission),
- defended Confed/Militia (they could offer scout/patrol mission),
- defend Pirate... if friendly (they could offer some mission against merchants/mercs).
It could be offered at once (in space just after fight/defend) or: "Meet me at bar on [base/station/planet]. I have some interesting/lucrative proposition for you."
For "ground action" the game should has some "random" fights/combats (not only with/by player). Player could be able to "interact/join/intervene" to change "result" (e.g. rescue civilians from hands of pirates). Other situation will be just like: "Hey, mister! I've got brilliant job for you. No, rally! My cousin from Nigeria told me... What?! You don't like Nigeria? It's 100% safe! We just need to borrow your ship for a while... No, no, no! No guns, no shooting. I'm going my way. It's your last chance for great business... Argh! My leg! My leg you sunofab...!".
Another thing is possibility of "pursuit/chase" after e.g. some Pirate. I mean from space dogfight to ground combat (and in opposite way).
| Iltsuger wrote: | But this is the important thing for me: regions of space should have different emergent elements.
This makes each region or planet have special character. Like, if you like a certain type of emergent mission you're more likely to hang out there, since those sorts of things are more likely to happen there. It makes the different planets and systems feel a bit more real, like those people actually have lives of their own, rather than all the shops and amenities being pretty much the same from one place to another. |
It could work. Especially when factions will fight for systems. Probability for particular mission type could differ in such regions. There could be available:
- merchants EGS in safer systems,
- mercs EGS in disputed systems,
- Confed/Militia EGS in "war regions",
- pirates EGS... actually everywhere.
For bigger/better differences between bases/stations/planets I'm still for making e.g. ship dealers ("shipyards") with "not equal" offer (small bases means equipments for small ships only; without "upgrade level 10") like I wrote it before. Guilds and especially fixers could have more "local" work and their offer should be different depends (at least) on quadrant.
| Iltsuger wrote: | | GLI, not sure if you agree or not, but I think I had in mind something similar to what you're saying, that you would likely have to have a merchant ship to take advantage of pods (just like fighter class ships get to do things that merchant ships are less likely to accomplish, like taking down capital ships). |
Actually I'm not so sure about "external pods". Present ships have internal cargo hold. Making something like this could "break" an in-game balance.
| Iltsuger wrote: | | I wouldn't want it to be a tug-exclusive, though. I think merchant ships in general should have this opportunity to some degree, to justify their existence beyond making money so you can buy a nice fighter-class ship. |
If somebody wants fighter class ship and (lucrative) merchant missions then could be able to hire space trucker... 
| Iltsuger wrote: | Another pod idea:
Emergency afterburners. Sort of like nitro in some racing games, where you have a limited amount of burn fuel, and you just sort of ignite it and go really, really fast until you detach it or it runs out. Good for a Drayman trying to make an emergency getaway, or a mid-range fighter trying to catch up with faster ships. |
Problem with afterburner is that it's not "after burner". I wrote it before. Attaching some kind of "booster"? Well, it'll be easy to destroy it besides ship will be exposed to risk of hull damage (e.g. Drayman wasn't constructed for such speeds/accelerations).
| Iltsuger wrote: | As for grammar:
"It would be interesting, too, if such a group could be undercover Pirates or Retros." I think hiding doesn't work right here, so you chose the right words. If you meant that they were hiding from authority and asking for your help, that might work, though. |
"Hiding" was for grammatic because of my lack of proper knowledge of English... 
... but it gives another idea for "more interactive/comprehensive game world".
Like I suggested it before ships could have "Internal Security Systems". Without it some "burglar" could be able to break and hide in player's ship (especially while he/she will be sleeping in hotel). Better ISS means less chance for break-in.
Maybe ship could be "hijacked" too? Let's imagine that player must "regain" his/her ship: go to sleep -> ship is hijacked -> wake up -> WTF! -> talk to bartender/informant -> hire ship or pay for travel (as "regular" fixers' passenger) -> go/fly after hijackers -> talk with them -> persuade/kill them -> regain ship -> buy better ISS...
| Iltsuger wrote: | There could be passenger demand, to facilitate WHERE these people need to go to and from. Like there will be an inner statistic for each world that needs labor, and there will be other people who need transport. Places that need labor are more likely to have people who want to go there.
Then the software computes where the demand is, and the surplus, and bases the amount of emergent prospective passengers based on that. It doesn't have to be labor focused, and there still can be just random passengers who want to go to random places, but this might help it feel a bit like you can take advantage of certain labor rushes, even getting them in the news like we do with commodities. |
Something like commodity events (with info in Quine) but this time player will be able to "search for passengers/hitchhikers" but they will choose "destination". E.g. if New Beijing will be looking for workers then e.g. at some agricultural planet will be available "passengers". And in opposite way. If NB will "fire" to many workers they could look for work elsewhere (e.g. at mine base).
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Lexus
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| Posted: August 29th, 2010 Post subject: Re: Transporting passengers and ejected pilots |
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Good ideas (again)!
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