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Throwing grenades

 
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GLI
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PostPosted: October 20th, 2009    Post subject: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


[Previously on Bug Reports]

I know that A* is 2D game but something is wrong. I can throw grenade through entire screen (1280) but anyone on line is blocking my throw. Why? It's not Flatland! Where is trajectory of a projectile? Throwing range should be limited according to space above our heads: more space on planets, fewer on ships and bases (depends on place; e.g. hangars have more space than bars).

Also I propose to make two types of throwing:
1) weak and low - short ranges, and high-arcing ballistic (like for mortar); advantage: do not bounce on "ground"; disadvantage: short time for "escape";
2) strong and high - long range and low-arcing ballistic (like for cannon); advantage: can "avoid" persons/low objects "on the line of fire"; disadvantage: can bounce on "ground" (smaller accuracy) or even ricochet.

BTW Throwing grenades at public places should be forbidden (regardless of making anybody any harm). If policeman will see this... Pinch
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Cthulhu
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PostPosted: October 20th, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


That would take some work, I guess. It would be cool if christian could out source parts of the code like this, so we /someone could help with writing the code, but I guess that would lead to complications...
Also, I don't know pascal, just C++, and not any good either.

I don't use grenades that often, just smoke, so it wouldn't matter that much to me.
 

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Telok
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PostPosted: October 20th, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


I really only use grenades in bars on pirate bases.I sometimes carry a smoke on assassinations though.

There is an invisible strength rating for the character, that should probably be used to limit grenade distance. With a reasonable maximum throwing range that would be all you need. We don't need to fool with ceiling height, that's just extra work for too little return. Being able to throw or roll a grenade past people would be nice, but again it's not an big deal.

My biggest concern with the grenades is that you get noticed for them going off but not for throwing them. This means that the police/fines/fight response is linked to doing damage to people instead of attacking them. That is something I would change because it means that you can throw three grenades without anybody noticing until they all go off at the same time.

Throw at delay setting 9, 6, and 2.
I think. It was a couple weeks ago and I didn't write it down.
 

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Cthulhu
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PostPosted: October 20th, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Telok wrote:
I really only use grenades in bars on pirate bases

You sound like a nice guy... Grin
Join the ERP-group! (Equal Rights for Pirates).

Telok wrote:
We don't need to fool with ceiling height, that's just extra work for too little return.

Thats my thinking also.
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Cthulhu wrote:
Telok wrote:
We don't need to fool with ceiling height, that's just extra work for too little return.

Thats my thinking also.


ENIAC was made to calculate artillery firing tables ("trajectory of a projectile") but A* doesn't need such "advanced" thing. It should be simple "if then" - IF player is on planet THEN throwing range is longer, IF player is on ship THEN throwing range is very short, etc.
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CheeseshireCat
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


bulls**t. You can not only *throw* a grenade. You can roll it on the floor, too, and when you aren't outside (i.e., have a level surface), it can go quite far before blowing.
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


CheeseshireCat wrote:
bulls**t. You can not only *throw* a grenade. You can roll it on the floor, too, and when you aren't outside (i.e., have a level surface), it can go quite far before blowing.


True but it require different type of throwing. AFAIR something like in "Medal of Honor: Allied Assault" - "high" for long range, and "low" for short range (including rolling on the floor).
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CheeseshireCat
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


GLI wrote:
True but it require different type of throwing. AFAIR something like in "Medal of Honor: Allied Assault" - "high" for long range, and "low" for short range (including rolling on the floor).


I don't know how it is in that game, only how it is for real. Try yourself, a .33 tin can works just as well -- including the similar results :)
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


CheeseshireCat wrote:
I don't know how it is in that game, only how it is for real. Try yourself, a .33 tin can works just as well -- including the similar results Happy


With tin can you don't need to get down ("duck & cover") to avoid (direct or ricochet) shrapnels. Imagine how grenades works in "tube" (like ships corridor). Russian F1 grenade could be thrown max. 45 meters but damage range is 200 (!) meters. US M67 is lighter but has similar damage range. Once I've thrown one training grenade (without explosives but the same wight like F1)... with very poor result (no training, you know).

Do you know how many variables are in "real life" throwing? For computer it's a big mess. We're talking (writing) about the game. It'll be good to have many types of throwing method, but how many do we need? Max. 2 (low and high) or 3 (with rolling/bouncing on the ground/floor).
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Matt_S
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PostPosted: October 21st, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


I don't see what's wrong with 1 throwing type. Even if the current grenade throwing situation isn't perfect, I don't see why things have to be made more complicated with different throwing types. Abstract throwing ftw.
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CheeseshireCat
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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


GLI wrote:
It'll be good to have many types of throwing method, but how many do we need? Max. 2 (low and high) or 3 (with rolling/bouncing on the ground/floor).


1. Period.

It is not X-Com type game. Even in those, most I saw was 3. (I don't count impact/delayed/airburst detonation here -- they are not *throwing* methods, they are impact methods, nor single/burst shooting from some grenade launchers).

Again, this is not a tactical combat game where you have a squad with lots of different equipment on folks and lots of different terrain you have to make use of.
 

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Cthulhu
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


On a mining base I'd guess most tunnels have a down slope, since you want to tunnel deeper into the rock, so if you roll a grenade, is it uphill or downhill? then the mass of the asteroid isn't spherically distributed, so what happens then? Do they have a artificial gravity field?
OK, so I might have been a bit extreme here in my neerdiness, but if you start to really think about roof height, and once it's fixed, eventually someone will start to think about the above mentioned gravity stuff.
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Cthulhu wrote:
On a mining base I'd guess most tunnels have a down slope, since you want to tunnel deeper into the rock, so if you roll a grenade, is it uphill or downhill? then the mass of the asteroid isn't spherically distributed, so what happens then? Do they have a artificial gravity field?
OK, so I might have been a bit extreme here in my neerdiness, but if you start to really think about roof height, and once it's fixed, eventually someone will start to think about the above mentioned gravity stuff.


Regardless of asteroid's diameter its mass is to low to "keep us down". It's sure that A* (like any WC game) has artificial gravity on ships and non planet bases. Such simplification is required for this type of game.

BTW I'm curious when will be made Elite IV and how devs will deal with gravity at ships and bases.
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Cthulhu
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


GLI wrote:
BTW I'm curious when will be made Elite IV and how devs will deal with gravity at ships and bases.

That's a very good question (the "when" part): 'Braben has stated the game will be released "when it's ready".'
which is good, considering what happened the last time, with the release of a half finished game, full of bugs.

read in a recent interview that he will start after his current project is done, but his been saying that for like 15 years now...

As for the gravity, Elite has always treated this correctly, which I love. It would be cool if you could "walk on ship", board, and stuff, just like in A*. I really hope it has a decent AI, cause I'm not in to that "play-online" WOW-stuff.
(In all previous Elite games, you've been glued to the pilot chair through out the game.)
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Cthulhu wrote:
As for the gravity, Elite has always treated this correctly, which I love. It would be cool if you could "walk on ship", board, and stuff, just like in A*. I really hope it has a decent AI, cause I'm not in to that "play-online" WOW-stuff.
(In all previous Elite games, you've been glued to the pilot chair through out the game.)


There was a couple of bugs (e.g. "relative speed to:") but it still was better "physics" than in any other game. Terminus (see "Download" for Demo) has good "flight model" but compared to E. it's still "too slow" and "too little" (within Solar System only).

Elite IV should be "single player mode" only. Without "time compression" flight from Earth to Mars will take days or even weeks. I don't see this in multiplayer. Unfortunately MMO games are more and more popular... and they make money.
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Cthulhu
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Woho, there's a Linux version, nice, can't see any demo though.
(some how I don't think E4 will support Linux).
 

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GLI
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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2009    Post subject: Re: Throwing grenades Reply with quote


Cthulhu wrote:
Woho, there's a Linux version, nice, can't see any demo though.


Strange. 2009-08-22 I've downloaded demo version (and I had buy full version on eBay in September). Hmm... Try TerminusPoint site (see: "Patches & Demos").
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